Petrostate USA vs Electrostate China: Who Will Win The Climate Race? Ep191

Cleaning Up Podcast January 8, 2025
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Cleaning Up Podcast

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Once a week, Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington have a conversation with a leader in clean energy, mobility, climate finance or sustainable development. Each episode covers the technical ground on some aspect of the low-carbon transition – but it also delves into the nature of leadership in the climate transition: whether to be optimistic or pessimistic; how to communicate in order to inspire change; personal credos; and so on. And it should be fun – most of the guests are Michael’s and Bryony's friends.

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Happy New Year and welcome to Season 14 of Cleaning Up. From the future of nuclear to growing tensions between China and the USA, we're off with a bang with a conversation between hosts Michael Liebreich and Bryony Worthington. They reflect on the key trends of 2024, and looking ahead to what might be on the cards in 2025, from China's rapid electrification to political upheaval in the US. Bryony and Michael get stuck into the challenges and opportunities around the build out of nuclear power, the potential of biofuels in aviation, and what we might expect from COP30 in Brazil later this year. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Links and more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSzF7QChxcw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB_WmXgFxtg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwfysBnTxEw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYdVAI5zozs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2LpMpkrP1w&pp • Paper on Curtailment of Nuclear Power Output during Heatwaves: https://cdn.catf.us/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/05104543/nuclear-power-output.pdf Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 00:45 - Growth of Electricity in China 05:05 - Tribe or No Tribe? 07:05 - US Climate Reversal 14:00 - Policy Flip-flops 19:10 - Electrostate vs Petrostate 24:20 - Trump's Appointees 27:09 - All of the Above 32:05 - Nuclear Excitement 35:44 - How Expensive is Nuclear? 40:12 - Why We Need Nuclear 51:45 - Brazil, Biofuels & Aviation 56:30 - Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty 59:20 - Outro

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