America Isn't Collapsing... It's Mutating | Michael Malice

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Shortform: Try Shortform free and get 20% off your annual subscription at http://shortform.com/tombilyeu Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact Check us out wherever you get your podcasts: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1nARKz2vTIOb7gC9dusE4b?si=a8daffd2bf1f48fd Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tom-bilyeus-impact-theory/id1191775648 Do you need my help? STARTING a business: join me here inside ZERO TO FOUNDER (https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder) SCALING a business: click here to see if you qualify (https://tombilyeu.com/scale) Get the exact systems, mindset shifts, and principles that built a $1B brand delivered straight to your inbox every week. Subscribe for free (https://tombilyeu.com) Check out our Video game - Project Kyzen: (https://projectkyzen.io/) Catch Me Streaming on Twitch - (https://twitch.tv/tombilyeu) Link to IT discord: https://discord.gg/TZKJ2etPbT Tom's Favorite Things List: https://amzn.to/41Ftt7e On today’s episode of Impact Theory, Tom Bilyeu sits down with author and provocateur Michael Malice for an unfiltered deep dive into America’s current social and political turbulence. Are we living through an actual decline—or is that just a narrative fueled by polarization and economic anxiety? Tom and Michael clash over definitions, metrics, and the real-world symptoms of unrest, from “soft secession” among states to the creeping rise of populism and political violence. Together, they unpack the hidden costs of inflation, housing bubbles, and deficit spending, with Tom warning about a dangerous fork in the road ahead: revolution, civil war, or the quiet erosion into economic stagnation. Michael pushes back, claiming America is in “ascension” in some critical ways, but he doesn’t shy away from calling out the breakdown in civic discourse and the silos fueling division. They dig into historical context, global comparisons, and the role of universities as modern indoctrination hubs. This conversation doesn’t stop at politics—it veers into the future of AI, the meaning of tribalism, social credit scores, and how technological upheaval might drive us all into virtual worlds or leave millions behind. Buckle up for a wild ride through uncomfortable truths, dark humor, and some offbeat protein bar analogies—you’re about to hear two radically different views not just of where America stands, but what could come next. 00:00 – Intro 00:34 – Michael Malice pushes back on “collapse” rhetoric 01:14 – America vs. the world: Perceptions of American power and value 04:16 – Political siloization and the shrinking space for dialogue 05:56 – Soft secession: State vs. federal power games 08:39 – Paths ahead: Civil War, Argentina, or revolution? 10:46 – Revolution mechanics: Is another 1860s-style war possible? 13:12 – Violence, political unrest, and expanding executive power 16:06 – Economic crushing of young people and the rise of populism 17:58 – Housing, inflation, and the struggle for the American Dream 20:08 – Currency as a store of value: Societal ruin and a lack of political will 23:10 – The Japan counterargument and the threshold for crisis 26:07 – What drives people to “blink” in political standoffs? 28:24 – Party priorities, empty rhetoric, and pivoting for power 32:00 – Economic disenfranchisement, the myth of moderate politics 36:56 – Populism vs. establishment: Energies within parties 39:03 – Political novelty, enthusiasm gaps, and voter turnout 41:38 – Global leftward drift: Authoritarianism in Canada, UK, and beyond 46:13 – “The time for talk is over”—what this actually means 47:27 – Universities as the “villains” and the creation of ruling elites 49:56 – Marxism, egalitarianism, and cultural bifurcation 52:02 – Cultural shifts, earnestness vs. revolution, and memory-holed leftism 54:00 – The dangers of social conformity and shifting the Overton window 56:29 – Can universities be reined in? 1:00:16 – Narrative control, new media chaos, and elite power after the Internet 1:06:49 – The politics of blame: Antisemitism, conspiracies, and populist rage 1:13:13 – Warning signs: Measuring society’s health by its scapegoats 1:19:12 – Israel-Palestine, war, and the elusive search for peace 1:21:52 – The next stage: AI, algorithmic reality, and broken discourse 1:24:00 – Goal orientation, skills, and navigating “useful” beliefs 1:25:18 – Tribalism, isolation, and the dangers for moderates 1:26:46 – Alex Jones, Candace Owens, and why conspiracy theories persist 1:32:00 – First principles: How to actually challenge your beliefs 1:33:56 – A personal story: Sleep apnea, anxiety, and reclaiming clarity 1:37:21 – AI, automation, and the fate of surplus labor 1:40:08 – Brave New World, artificial difficulty, and the post-economic Matrix 1:48:56 – Hardwired for scarcity: The psychological cost of abundance 1:51:16 – Trade-offs, Thomas Sowell, and the “protein bar” thought experiment