Ep. 227: Ryan Tedder pt.4 | The Modern Music Economy (and How to Win)

Video Description

Today's guest is a familiar face... A friend to the podcast and one of the most successful and influential creators in music history. He isn’t just a hitmaker. He's perhaps one of the few people in the history of music to have hits as a songwriter, artist, and producer... completely aside from one another and across genres. And The Writer Is... Ryan Tedder! He’s back to drop gems and insight into the modern music industry right now. In this episode, he breaks down: 🎯 Why the middle class of music is disappearing 🎯 How splits, streaming, and AI are reshaping the game 🎯 The mindset you need to survive as an artist today 🎯 What real creative value looks like in 2025 and beyond This one isn’t just inspiring — It’s essential listening for anyone who wants to last in music.. A special thank you to our sponsors... Our lead sponsor, NMPA aka the National Music Publisher's Association. Your support means the world to us! And @splice -- the best sample library on the market, period. Chapter List 00:00 - Almost Quitting Music: Ryan's Breaking Point 00:18 - The Smash Hit That Never Saw the Light of Day 00:35 - Shocking Stats: Songwriters' Income Plummeted 60% 01:03 - Rock Bottom: Turning My Studio into a Real Estate Office 01:23 - Championing Songwriters: Building a Middle Class in Music 01:37 - The Seagull Analogy: How Too Many Writers Kill the Pie 02:13 - Hip-Hop Sampling: 18 Writers on One Song? 03:00 - Diane Warren's Influence: Solo Songwriting Mastery 03:33 - Internet's Dark Side: Barrier to Entry Destroyed Discipline 04:11 - The "Vibe Guy" Trap: Community Over Precious Publishing 05:01 - Global Hit Gone Wrong: Giving Away $9 Million Unknowingly 06:30 - Lifetime Value: Why Radio Pays 5x More Than Streaming 08:06 - No Clue About Radio: Young Writers Missing the Big Payday 09:04 - Old School Sessions: Shutting Down Extra Writers 09:38 - Fear of Offending: Why We Let Splits Dilute 10:17 - Album Tracks' Lost Value: No Runway for New Writers 11:35 - Master Ownership vs. Publishing: The Streaming Debate 12:15 - 2024 Stats: 7.2 Writers Per Top 10 Hit 13:29 - Middle Class Destroyed: From $255K to $60K Per Smash 15:56 - Inflation Hits Hard: Songwriting's 60% Decline 17:39 - Dividing the Pie: 6 Writers = Poverty-Level Earnings 19:27 - 2.2 Billion Streams? Labels Skip Radio to Save Costs 20:38 - Radio's Origin: Ads for Albums, Not Cash Cows 21:20 - Labels Don't Profit from Radio: The Real Truth 22:20 - Streaming vs. Radio: Why Labels Wait and Writers Lose 23:23 - Inflation Parallels: Twice the Writers, Half the Value 24:57 - Grammy Noms Favor Fewer Writers: Quality Over Quantity 26:24 - Refreshing Solos: Writing 100% Alone 28:13 - Bullying in Splits: Fear of Saying "No" to Producers 29:59 - Acknowledging Roles: Production Isn't Songwriting 30:43 - Grow a Spine: Managers as Bad Cops for Fair Splits 32:01 - Label Flexibility: Pay Points from Master Buckets 33:44 - Songwriter Points: Coming Off the Top, Not the Bottom 35:10 - Producers Demand Points for Co-Writers 37:11 - Limit Writers: Make Yourself Indispensable 39:29 - NDAs for Writers: Ryan's Take on Secrecy 41:07 - AI Fears: Replacing Humans in Music? 43:18 - Rick Rubin's Wisdom: Music Keeps Us Human 44:07 - AI Tools: Generating Vibes, But Sucks for Now 01:13:52 - Family's Role: Do They Still Care About My Career? 01:14:55 - Kids' Favorite Songs: Obsessed with My Back Catalog 01:17:33 - Biggest Career Surprises: Greedy, I Ain't Worried, Rumour Has It 01:22:43 - Adele's 21: Soul Over Hits, Massive Surprise 01:26:05 - Picking Projects: Mapping Global Pop Culture 01:29:50 - Worst Career Low: 2017 Burnout and Quitting Thoughts 01:37:31 - Heartbreak Survival: Divorce Yourself from Songs 01:42:55 - Advice to Kids: Outwork Everyone, Avoid the Middle 01:48:37 - Proud Dad: Kids Better Than Us 01:51:43 - Legacy: Interviews for Our Kids' Future 01:55:00 - Global Moments: Hearing Songs in Romania 01:58:42 - Outro: Shoutouts and Thanks Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Artwork by Michael White