Former MI5 & MI6 Heads On The Iraq War, Double Agents & Today's Best Secret Services | The Two Spies

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What is it like to be a spy in real life? Do you get an Aston Martin like James Bond 007? Should spies be allowed to break the law while undercover? What should the relationship between government and intelligence look like? Do we overestimate or underestimate the power and reach of Russia's FSB and China's intelligence service? On today's special episode of Leading, Rory & Alastair are joined by Eliza Manningham-Buller and John Sawers to discuss what it's really like to lead MI5 and MI6, respectively. This episode was recorded before the IS-Khorasan attack in Moscow. TRIP ELECTION TOUR: To buy tickets for our October Election Tour, just head to https://www.therestispolitics.com/ TRIP Plus: Become a member of The Rest Is Politics Plus to support the podcast, receive our exclusive newsletter, enjoy ad-free listening to both TRIP and Leading, benefit from discount book prices on titles mentioned on the pod, join our Discord chatroom, and receive early access to live show tickets and Question Time episodes. Just head to https://www.therestispolitics.com/ to sign up. ✅ Subscribe Here: https://www.youtube.com/@restispolitics ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 🎙️ Listen To The Podcast: https://lnk.to/TheRestIsPoliticsYT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 📱 Follow Us On Socials: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/restispolitics/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/restispolitics/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@restispolitics Twitter: https://twitter.com/RestIsPolitics If you liked the episode don't forget to let us know in the comments and if you want to listen only you can catch The Rest Is Politics on all major podcast platforms. 00:00 Intro 02:10 How Eliza and John were recruited into the secret service 08:45 The personality types that make a good spy 12:47 How the threat from terrorism has changed over the years 15:34 Managing the intelligence services during the Iraq War 26:42 Successful operations & double agents 37:17 Popular spy representation - does it help or hinder recruitment? 40:02 Post 9/11 intelligence operations 44:55 The UK's biggest objective in counter terrorism today 51:21 Why not just overthrow a corrupt regime? 54:27 Thoughts on China/Taiwan, Russia/Ukraine & Gaza/Israel & Trump 1:04:10 Worst case scenario in the next 5-10 years 1:06:55 What are you optimistic about? 1:09:05 De-brief