Goliath's Curse: How & Why Societies Collapse, & What We Can Do About It - Luke Kemp | #54

Video Description

My guest this week is Luke Kemp. EPISODE PAGE + TRANSCRIPT: https://www.realitystudies.co/p/luke-kemp-goliaths-curse-collapse-dont-be-a-dick Please support this podcast by checking out: - ProtonVPN: https://go.getproton.me/SH1yt (click here to get 55% off VPN Plus) - ZBiotics: https://zbiotics.com/?sca_ref=4926056.YlP8s92iYP (use code: JESSEDAMIANI for 10% off) - MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.pxf.io/Urgent (click link for 43% off starter packs) - Mission Farms CBD: https://mission-farms-cbd.sjv.io/Urgent (25% off first order with email signup) - 1Password: https://1password.partnerlinks.io/UrgentFutures (free trial at link) PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://www.realitystudies.co/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/urgent-futures-with-jesse-damiani/id1708944394 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4JOs9DssCQaGLhPNzz291z?si=6b99473906664eb1 RSS: https://api.substack.com/feed/podcast/42585.rss Full episodes playlist: @UrgentFutures ABOUT LUKE: Luke researches the end of the world. He is a Research Affiliate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk (CSER) at the University of Cambridge. He has advised and led foresight studies for multiple international organisations, including the WHO and Convention on Biological Diversity. His work has been covered by media outlets such as the BBC, the New York Times, and the New Yorker. He is the author of the bestselling book Goliath’s Curse: The History and Future of Societal Collapse. Buy Goliath’s Curse here: https://amzn.to/3KXW2Ig CONTEXT: I’ll be frank. If you’re looking to understand collapse from a systemic point-of-view, with the most contemporary research available, you have to start with Goliath’s Curse. “Collapse” is one of those words that’s bandied about a lot—especially with conversations about the future of the United States and U.S. hegemony—and is therefore prone to debate, misconceptions, and a variety of uses. Luke cuts through that noise to make the case that collapse isn’t just a sensationalist concept or a fringe worry—it’s a recurring feature of history in human societies, a cocktail of human evolutionary psychology and the power of symbolic communication, which allows us to craft stories and ideologies that, among other things, grant particular people the ability to cast themselves as more deserving of finite resources and form dominance hierarchies. Before I go any further, I also want to give a huge shoutout to Onassis ONX Studio for making the space for this interview. Combining empirical research, historical case studies, and contemporary global trends, he shows how what he calls goliath fuel—stuff like lootable resources and new technologies—allows for the formation of “goliaths,” a word he uses to sidestep the colonialist implications of “civilization,” going to pains to demonstrate how many of the empires we glamorize today were ruthless and brutal engines of domination. He also shows how these same features, which manifest broadly as systemic inequality, sow the seeds for the fall of these goliaths. In this wide-ranging conversation, we talk about the patterns behind past collapses, why “collapse” doesn’t always mean apocalypse, and what insights from past collapses we should use to evaluate the current “Silicon Goliath.” We explore how factors like inequality, environmental degradation, and political fragility intersect in surprising (and not-so-surprising) ways, and why understanding these dynamics is crucial—not to amplify despair and nihilism, but to work toward more equitable, democratic, just social, political, and economic configurations. If you’re looking for guidance and clarity around the past, present, and future of these goliaths, and how you might consider becoming a “David,” this is the conversation for you. CREDITS: This video was produced by Adam Labrie & Jesse Damiani, & edited by Adam LaBrie. More: realitystudies.co. SOCIAL: - Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/jessedamiani.bsky.social - Twitter: https://twitter.com/JesseDamiani - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessedamiani - Instagram (+Threads): https://www.instagram.com/jessedamiani - Substack: https://substack.com/@damiani