Video Description

Is green hydrogen a ‘miracle fuel’ or an expensive illusion? Can we decarbonize without it? And what happens when hydrogen hype meets hard economics? This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich debates Erik Rakhou, author of Touching Hydrogen Future, in a no-holds-barred discussion moderated by Andrew Critchlow of S&P Global Commodity Insights. Together, they contest one of the most contentious topics in energy today: hydrogen. Liebreich argues that hydrogen is plagued by physics-driven cost barriers and limited real-world applications, while Rakhou defends its potential as a critical tool for industrial decarbonization, energy resilience, and long-term security. From the potential of green vs. blue hydrogen, to global ammonia trade routes, Europe’s pipeline ambitions, and China’s hydrogen cost curve, this debate pulls no punches. Topics include: • Whether there’ll ever be a hydrogen-based economy • Why hydrogen economics remain so challenging • The role of carbon pricing vs. subsidies • e-Fuels and hydrogen’s place in transport, steel, and aviation • Why electrification trumps hydrogen This episode was recorded at the S&P Global offices in London and originally broadcast as a S&P Global webinar on October 29, 2025. THanks to S&P Global and Andrew Critchlow for hosting the debate. Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live. Read more: • Erik's website: https://rakhou.com • The EU’s hydrogen strategy: https://energy.ec.europa.eu/topics/eus-energy-system/hydrogen_en • Data on EU natural gas prices 2010-2025: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1buQTdpQOMShue-zXyZUYVgZ9dPe5rZ5Y/view?usp=share_link • Michael Liebreich's Keynote Speech at World Hydrogen Congress 2022: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj900aBPkiY • Erik’s book ‘Touching Hydrogen Futures’: https://europeangasmarket.eu • European Court of Auditors call for a hydrogen reality check: https://www.eca.europa.eu/en/news/NEWS-SR-2024-11 • Michael’s Pragmatic Climate Reset: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i/ Chapters: 00:00 - Coming Up 01:00 - Intro 02:46 - Erik's Optimism, Michael's Skepticism 07:32 - Do We Need To Burn Fuels? 09:30 - Is Hydrogen Different 12:39 - Are Oil Producers Keeping Prices Low? 18:10 - The Economics of Hydrogen 22:34 - Marshall Plan for Hydrogen 26:45 - Hydrogen for Resilience 31:35 - Carbon Pricing 35:52 - Hydrogen is Uncompetitive 40:48 - Pathway to Cheap Hydrogen? 45:49 - Where Are The Use Cases For Hydrogen? 53:01 - Hydrogen Pipelines 58:58 - Displace Coal First 01:01:34 - Blue, Green or Grey? 01:05:00 - Outro